Forum Activity for @Sacred Steve

Sacred Steve
@Sacred Steve
04/26/10 10:13:03
116 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

Hi Clay,You should look up the article I already posted on this site which I already referred to in this discussion. It goes into great scientific detail on the fact that raw unfermented beans are higher in antioxidants than fermented ones.BTW, I think we are splitting hairs here on symantics. But, just to clarify further, "Fresh" would mean fresh beans out of the pod. In regards to cacao (not chocolate), "Raw" would mean "Fresh" beans out of the pod that are then NOT fermented and then dried at a temperature below your currently defined "Raw" temperature threshold/limit.Although what you say about broccoli or other herbal teas may be true, in general, one of the challenges of cooked foodism is that it causes a noticable increase in white blood cell count upon ingestion.Steve
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/26/10 10:02:15
1,696 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

Steve:What you call "True Raw" is what I call "Fresh." Because there is no accepted definition (and no research to prove anything) of what raw is, your "slowly dried at low temp" is not scientific - it's personal opinion.That's perfectly okay as long as we all recognize that it's the expression of your personal opinion, not "fact."Can you point me to any research that shows that the nutritional profile of unfermented beans is "better" than the nutritional profile of beans that have been properly fermented yet kept under max raw temp? Or is this just conjecture on your part?As with broccoli (where light steaming makes some of the nutrients more bioavailable), proper fermentation may actually make cacao healthier for you because of some of the changes that occur in the bean during fermentation. Some long-chain polyphenols are converted to short chain version that might (just might) be healthier. I don't know the answer, I am just asking the question.While overall antioxidant levels in fermented cacao may be lower, there is no reason to automatically believe that more necessarily equals better. Fermentation may improve the bioavailability of some components of the cacao and "improve" it in some way. ORAC is one measure, it's not the only measure, and it may not be the best measure as it's not a comprehensive measure of cacao, just antioxidant activity and there may be confounding factors.One of the challenges with raw foodism is that one of the primary tenets of raw foodism -- that enzymes (the source of a mystical life force) in food reduce the need for the pancreas to produce digestive enzymes -- has never been conclusively proved, at least so far as I have been able to find out.That said - there are benefits to be had in the diet/lifestyle without buying into the unprovable "science" behind it. Read Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food. A predominantly raw (it's not necessary or even desirable in most cases, IMO, to be 100% raw) diet is very close to that ideal.Plus - and this is another area where people get confused - raw does not automatically mean vegan. Eating sashimi is a very tasty and way to get necessary macro and micro-nutrients that are hard to get in a 100% raw/vegan diet.
Sacred Steve
@Sacred Steve
04/26/10 09:14:42
116 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

Hi Clay,Thanks for this detail and clarification. I have been researching raw foods since 1993 and have been a raw foodist since then too. Keep in mind there is no real definition of "raw", and that is why I stated what I stated the way I stated it. If you were to survey people in the raw food movement, they would respond with a raw temperature definition of anywhere from 105 to 125 degrees F, which is plus or minus nearly 25%. Raw cacao is the actual "true raw" I was referring to. In other words, the FRESH raw beans right out of the pod or those same beans slowly dried at some temperature below a defined raw temperature. Raw chocolate is possible to make like you said, but it takes a lot of time. I make raw chocolate using unfermented beans in many cases in order to maximize nutrient content. I posted an article on this site showing how antioxidants drop off with fermentation times, and it is not determined whether or not those curves are fermentation temperature dependent. I believe it was under the "raw chocolate, what is it" discussion.Steve
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/26/10 07:52:22
1,696 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

Steve:I have to respectfully disagree with you on your first statement - unless you can point me to an external, credible, and definitive source (i.e., not your web site) that makes the distinction between "raw" and "True Raw" - especially as it refers to chocolate. Beans fresh out of the pod are technically seeds (as they are still viable) and so "Fresh Cacao Seeds" is what they should be called. Calling them "Truly Raw Chocolate" is, in my opinion, sloppy and inaccurate marketing lingo that does the raw community a disservice as it lessens its credibility.Lacking any external support, the only "standard" to go by is the "standard" that the raw community as a whole agrees to. By that "standard," the maximum temperature to which food can be subjected without loss of enzyme activity (and related nutritional aspects of a food) is 118F -- despite the fact that there is no firm scientific evidence to back the claims made for this specific temperature.According to my research, there is no magic temperature for all foods in all conditions.A lot depends on the structure and density of the food itself (e.g., lettuces are a lot more delicate than are seeds), whether the food in question is wet or dry, contact time (i.e., the length of time the food is subjected to a source of heat), the nature of the heat source (e.g., you can set a dehydrator to 125F and evaporative cooling - water escaping the food - will keep the temperature of the food below 118F until the water is removed), and the specific heat transfer profile of the food in question (e.g., it should be okay to subject the outside of a nut covered by a thick shell to very high temperatures for surprisingly extended periods of time to kill pathogens on the outside of the food - with little or no heat not transferred through the shell to the nutmeat inside.It is actually easy to fully and completely ferment cacao and keep the pile under 118F - thereby satisfying the most widely accepted definition for the maximum temperature to which a food can be subjected and still be called raw. The "trick" is to control the size of the pile. There are a number of fermentation boxes I have personally seen that make it possible to do this.It is somewhat harder to dry the beans and keep the temp under 118F - if the beans are dried in direct sun, and especially if they are dried on a concrete pad. Temperatures can easily reach 140F - at least at the surface of the pad. It is possible to dry beans at low temp, it just takes a lot more care, takes longer - and therefore costs more.On the other hand.I have eaten a lot of so-called raw (as some sources have now been discredited) chocolate from a lot of different vendors in the past two years or so that I've been researching this. When the rest of my diet is clean enough, I do notice a difference in the way my body responds and the way I feel after eating some raw chocolates, but that may be due as much to other "superfood" ingredients that have been added as the cacao itself.I don't question that there is a difference, I only question the absolute cutoff temperature of 118F - knowing that there are ways to process cacao into chocolate that minimize the loss of all manner of nutrients and keeping the resultant chocolate a relatively whole food.That's the key. If the temp hits 125F for 10 seconds or even 10 minutes, it doesn't really matter because the amount of chocolate you have to eat to reap meaningful benefits is actually quite small. New studies suggest that as little as 1/4 oz (~7 grams) of "cooked" dark (i.e., no dairy) chocolate is enough, when eaten consistently, to deliver measurable benefits even without any other changes to a person's diet. Here's one of the few cases where food combining actually makes scientific sense. Eating a 100% raw chocolate with a glass of raw milk reduces the antioxidant benefits of the chocolate because some of the proteins in the milk will bind to some of the antioxidants thereby reducing the bioavailability of the antioxidants.I have a stone grinder and make a variety of foods for personal consumption. One is a nut and seed butter that consists of a combination of almonds, pecans, and cashews with sunflower, sesame, flax, and chia seed. I happen to like roasty, toasty flavors. A lot. So what I do is dehydrate, at a relatively high temp, a small amount of some of the ingredients. I find that this approach gives me the toasty flavors I crave while delivering virtually all of the benefits of the foods in the raw state. While it's not "100% raw" I can't see that it makes any meaningful difference, dietarily.All raw chocolate makers face this problem when it comes to the sweetener they choose. Agave syrup is subjected to high temperatures to reduce moisture content - as are coconut palm sugar, maple syrup, and most of the other options (I don't know the processing steps for any of the sugar alcohols - xylitol, erythritol, etc.- so I can't speak authoritatively on the temps used). So - even though the cacao in a product may be "raw" the sweetener is almost certainly not.In the end, the question is, "Where do you choose to draw the line?" 100% raw chocolate is difficult to do and comparatively very expensive. One of the clues that the chocolate you might be eating is not even close to 100% raw is the price. If it's anywhere near close to the price of a commodity "cooked" chocolate - then it's not 100% raw.
Suzanne Marie
@Suzanne Marie
04/25/10 00:33:48
1 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

From a personal perspective I agree with you, Sirius. I was introduced to raw chocolate only a couple of months ago and now my other organic chocolate is in the past. I recently bought raw cacao nibs and I love them in the raw! I'm reading "Naked Chocolate" and also "12 Steps to Raw Foods" to help me adjust to the raw diet. Am wanting to learn more about raw chocolate personally, and turn my passion into a business to support me in my golden years! Thanks for the interesting posts.Chocofully yours, Suzanne
Sacred Steve
@Sacred Steve
04/21/10 11:47:37
116 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

True Raw is fresh unfermented beans that are fresh out of the pod or dried at low temperatures.It all depends on your definition of raw of course. If your definition of raw is below 118, then you are correct, your chocolate is cooked. The more you ferment, the more you degrade antioxidants. Understand, this area is grey in nature. The more heat that is applied to any food, the more the food degrades in its natural life giving properties.
Sacred Steve
@Sacred Steve
04/19/10 03:49:24
116 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

Hi Sirius,Thanks for your passion!FYI, I am pretty sure that RANCID fats and TRANS fats are two totally different things. I would research that more if interested.Welcome to our forum!Hearts!Sacred Steve http://www.SacredChocolate.com
Sirius Chocolate
@Sirius Chocolate
04/18/10 15:18:41
10 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

Greetings Chocolate Lifers,

I have been enjoying so much rich information from perusing this website, the time has come for my debut contribution - a discussion on "Raw Chocolate". Now before everybody launches into this based on personal convictions of the "correct", "traditional", or "market standard" way of processing chocolate, let us take a moment to consider the nature of human knowledge and how it progresses through the ages, be it scientific breakthroughs or cultural/industrial practices pertaining to food handling, and how the accepted assumptions of one age can be overturned and proven "false" by new "discoveries". Thus, let us keep an open mind and really consider other possibilities than the known, than what's conventional. That being said, this forum post is intended to be a place for discussion citing scientific studies, and experts in the field and on the ground, to see if there is anything of real value that can be gained by examining chocolate from a slightly different vantage point.

My interests in chocolate grew out of my involvement in the Raw Food movement (Youtube: David Wolfe), which for me is a fairly radical attempt to get as far away from the industrial and agricultural "revolution's" impacts on human health, and ecological health, by eating as close to the natural source as possible. Now, the discussion of raw foods is intimately intertwined with many other political issues, including organics (an attempt to lessen artificial pesticides and fertilizers which destroy long-term soil fertility), fair-trade (an attempt to equalize the economies of a global commodity market), human nutrition (the well known debate on the heat sensitive nature of enzymes, amino acids, and certain vitamins, ect.), and so on.

While not being for everybody, and perhaps most valuable only as a cleanse (as opposed to a long-term diet; research: Daniel Vitalis), I feel totally confident in saying that going raw for several months completely changed my experience of life in a drastically positive way. As raw foodists sought vegan sources of high-vitamin/mineral content foods, we saw the birth of the "Superfood" movement (research: David Wolfe, Linus Pauling), which brought to general market a certain pricy commodity being sold as "Raw Chocolate".

Praised for its rich mineral content, along with a wide array of psychoactive components, minimally processed cacao products fast grew into a trendy health-fad among "conscious" consumers who could afford it. As someone who came to chocolate from this perspective, I now am delving deeper into the history, the processing, the business, and the fine culinary aspects of cacao.

From my understanding, all fine chocolatiers roast their beans, a process which chemically alters the cacao in a way which produces the flavor profiles commonly associated with "good" chocolate. Now, there are two different approaches to come at this subject from this point: there is the personal approach which is most concerned with how different chocolate products make me feel. And then there is the scientific perspective incorporating biochemistry, and how various practices of processing affect human health and nutrition.

From the personal perspective, I have this to say. All "processed" chocolate, (ie. pressed at high temps/pressures, roasted, conched...) makes me feel bad compared to "raw" chocolate, despite the "fine" chocolates having a more subtle flavor profile. Now, the fine chocolatier would say I have not developed the palate for differentiating the subtle flavors of fine chocolate; the raw foodist would say the chocolate connoisseurs have not detoxed their body enough to feel the effects of eating the processed chocolate. Again, this claim is personal to me, although being confirmed by many people I know.

Now then, of the scientific perspective, examining how the chemical constituents (changed by different processing techniques) affects our biological system, I have heard several claims made. The first is that heating cacao (in the pressing to remove the oil, and in the roasting) kills the enzymes. I have also heard it argued that cacao does not contain considerable enzymes after the fermentation process. Next, exposing the cacao to high temps (especially over 200 degrees F.) supposedly reduces and/or eliminates the presence of some of cacao's fancier psycoative molecules such as phenylethylamine, anandamine, and tryptophan, as well as deteriorates the methylxanthines from theobromine into caffeine. Third, high-temp processing has been said to lessen the nutritional value of chocolate by reducing the amounts of vitamin C, as well as many of the other nutrients found in an unpressed, unroasted cacao bean (B-vitamins...). Lastly, and claimed by David Wolfe to be the final arbiter on "raw" versus "processed", all high-temp exposed chocolate contains rancid omega fatty acids (trans-fats) which can cause an inflammatory reaction once consumed by humans, whereas "raw" cacao contains stable omega fatty acids beneficial to human health.

{for information purposes: "raw" is generally defined asnever having been heated over 118
degrees Fahrenheit
. All chocolate that I know of being sold as
"raw" has been fermented, which does take the temp over 118 degrees F.
However, the difference from this point is in the processing which takes
place once the beans get in the hands of the "chocolate maker".}

updated by @Sirius Chocolate: 12/13/24 12:16:49
Susanna Harris
@Susanna Harris
04/18/10 18:42:00
12 posts

Where to by chocolate in bulk


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Many thanks. I definitely don't want no flavor chocolate. I haven't tried Felchlin -- will have to give that w whirl!
Susanna Harris
@Susanna Harris
04/18/10 17:23:28
12 posts

Where to by chocolate in bulk


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Thank you very much. You've given me something to go on.
Mark J Sciscenti
@Mark J Sciscenti
04/18/10 16:17:48
33 posts

Where to by chocolate in bulk


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Susanna, you can buy wholesale from most chocolate makers direct or through distributors. Example: Scharffen Berger and El-Rey buy direct, Valrhona and Felchlin through distributors. In the case of Felchlin you can set up an account with their main distributor in Florida and have the chocolate shipped anywhere. Most of the chocolate makers have distribution in the US. Sometimes it is less expensive to buy from distributors and sometimes not. Always comparison shop. I found that buying Felchlin directly from their main distributor (Swiss Chalet) was cheeper then buying from other distributors, who get the Felchlin from Swiss Chalet. In the case of El-Rey and Scharffen Berger I bought directly because I could get what I wanted. There are minimums but sometimes the amounts really are not that much.The question for you is what do you want to buy- quality wise, and how much to you want. If you just want bulk no flavor chocolate or higher end chocolates. Plus, where are you located.Good luck!-Mark
Susanna Harris
@Susanna Harris
04/16/10 16:02:06
12 posts

Where to by chocolate in bulk


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Hi Dirke,I know of one distributor locally who carries chocolate but their selection is extremely limited. I will do some research on other distributors in the area. Good idea!
Dirke Botsford
@Dirke Botsford
04/16/10 15:58:03
98 posts

Where to by chocolate in bulk


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

You may want to go to your local baker and see where they get there's as they typically carry chocolate for cakes as well and fondant along with other ingredients. Or ask a caterer. I say this because they will know someone local rather than paying shipping buying online. Hope that helps?
Susanna Harris
@Susanna Harris
04/15/10 19:56:28
12 posts

Where to by chocolate in bulk


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Hi all. I would like to know where people buy large quantities of chocolate -- names of wholesalers, websites, etc. would be greatly appreciated!

updated by @Susanna Harris: 04/07/25 13:00:14
Ilana
@Ilana
04/15/10 22:27:18
97 posts

tempering with homemade mycryo


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

wow. Thanks Cheebs. Does it take a long time to cool the choc to 35C -I have a X3210. Lana, I did not know that Wybauw no longer is with Callebaut! Interesting "fact"!! I wonder what his reasons are. Using regular seed cools the choc down quickly, but getting it 35 without seed seems timely...
Carlos Eichenberger
@Carlos Eichenberger
04/15/10 14:43:42
158 posts

tempering with homemade mycryo


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I've used lots of tempered cb as seed. The way I've done it is to temper the cb and pour in ice cube molds, then grate it with a Microplane. As soon as the chocolate reaches 35C I add the seed butter slowly. Most of the time I've used this method with my Hilliard's temperers, although this will work just fine doing it manually.
Ilana
@Ilana
04/15/10 13:53:36
97 posts

tempering with homemade mycryo


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

My local forum is discussing this and so I got curious. Some colleagues say that they take well tempered cb and grind in it a machine of sorts-magimix/thermomix etc and use it as mycryo. Apparently it works well. Do you do this? Have you ever thought of tempering with cb (even just regular)? It seems that without the rest of the cacao solids, less would be needed. I did find info on Eddy Van Damm's blog. But to get the choco to around 35C takes time... And then no time is saved...
updated by @Ilana: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/15/10 07:12:26
1,696 posts

A new ring in the legal big top over cocoa flavanols


Posted in: News & New Products Press

I also thought the flavanol content (over 50%) was way high. This must mean that virtually all of the fat is removed along with who knows what else.Your point in other posts is well taken. Conventional chocolate confers high levels of beneficial substances without subjecting the beans either to extreme forms of overprocessing or deliberate under-processing. And, as you say, there are vitamins that are good for you at one dosage that are lethal at another (e.g., vitamin A - remember not to eat polar bear liver). Who knows what the toxicity/prooxidant effects of very high levels of dietary polyphenols might be.
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/15/10 07:07:54
1,696 posts

A new ring in the legal big top over cocoa flavanols


Posted in: News & New Products Press

Sam:We are making different arguments.All I am saying is that one number (total cocoa content) is not a definitive indicator of the "healthiness" of chocolate.One factor I did not present was that because the preponderance of antioxidants is in the non-fat solids, not the fat (cocoa butter), you can't know from the total cocoa content what the ratio of NCFS is -- you might be able calculate the fat component from the ingredients label for chocolates that don't have milk, but as NFCS has some carbs you need to do some math to separate those out; but that's information in addition to the cocoa content on the label.It is perfectly OK for a 70% chocolate to be 50% NCFS and 50% fat. That ratio would contain more antioxidants than a chocolate made from exactly the same ingredients with a ratio of 25:75 NFCS:cocoa butter.I don't doubt your math or your science - I think we're making different points.
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/14/10 18:37:02
1,696 posts

A new ring in the legal big top over cocoa flavanols


Posted in: News & New Products Press

Sam:The author of the article is referencing Mars making the point about a lack or correlation, not me. I was emphasizing from the article.Despite what you point out, I am skeptical that there is a reliable correlation on that one factor.Take three chocolates, all 45% total cocoa content (not NFCS, total cocoa content). All three chocolates have been made from the same beans, roasted the same way.One is a dark milk chocolate containing 15% full cream milk solids.One is made using chocolate that has been Dutch processed.One has bean made using chocolate that has not been Dutch processed.From the cocoa content alone, you cannot which has potentially more health benefits. You need to know more than just the cocoa content.Where I think your graph misleads is that you need to graph the procyanidin count for all of the different forms at the same cocoa content. You will see that they are all different, which I believe is the point the article is making.
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/14/10 11:34:50
1,696 posts

A new ring in the legal big top over cocoa flavanols


Posted in: News & New Products Press

Mars Inc is suing Nutraceuticals, Life Extension Foundation, and Naturex for infringing nine patents covering the manufacture of its [ed, Mars'] CirkuHealth cocoa flavanols.

Mars has been researching cocoa flavanols for about 20 years and launched CirkuHealth via its Mars Botanical division in 2009. The ingredient is made using a patented process called Cocoapro, said to accurately measure active compound levels and, by reducing exposure to high temperatures , provides "greater protection" for flavanols. This process allows CirkuHealth to claim about 550mg of cocoa flavanols per gram.

Mars has in the past made a point of the fact that although dark chocolate with a high cocoa content is commonly perceived to be healthier than sweetened confections with low cocoa levels, cocoa percentage is not actually a reliable measure of health benefits . This is because fermentation, drying and roasting, all of which help develop the flavor of chocolate, may reduce the flavanol content.

[Ed. My Opinion: I wish more people would pay attention to Mars ... in this respect. As Samantha pointed out, they do have an agenda to promote, however blind belief in "70% good" is just plain wrong, IMO. Cocoa content is just one factor that needs to be considered.]

updated by @Clay Gordon: 03/11/26 06:20:34
Avinash Ramnanan
@Avinash Ramnanan
04/12/10 17:40:10
1 posts

Trinidad and Tobago (Caribbean) chocolate block


Posted in: News & New Products Press

My name is Avinash and I am a farmer from Trinidad. I am looking towards exporting a chocolate block that makes an excellent chocolate drink. Anyone interested please feel free to email me at avinashramnanan@hotmail.com


updated by @Avinash Ramnanan: 03/11/26 06:20:34
Andy Ciordia
@Andy Ciordia
08/27/10 09:44:57
157 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Additional ideas, we ran out of church kitchens for quite a while. Knights of Columbus banquet halls. We've also been able to use other bakers kitchens. If you work out at the markets you'll meet lots of people who will have local suggestions and be able to help you with caveats too.
Ilene Shane
@Ilene Shane
08/23/10 14:29:44
3 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi Mathew, Depending on your needs in terms of hours and days and possible storage we would figure out a rate. So for example if you used the kitchen 35-40 hours per week and wanted some storage space the rate would approx be $3000 per month plus utilities. So if that is anyplace in the ball park give me a call to discuss and then come in to see the space. 212-725-6972 Thanks for your interest.
Matthew W.
@Matthew W.
08/23/10 14:24:39
10 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello, I see you are in NY, I am also interested in possibly renting space/time. Would you be able to share more info?
Ilene Shane
@Ilene Shane
08/13/10 08:19:22
3 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Oh... sorry I wish you were here
Amy DeFiore
@Amy DeFiore
08/13/10 06:31:40
5 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I live a little north of Boston in Ma
Ilene Shane
@Ilene Shane
08/12/10 17:39:16
3 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Where are you from I have a wonderful kitchen available
Alexandra Saunders
@Alexandra Saunders
05/05/10 00:58:14
5 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

That is a great idea Dirke. Thanks for the tip!
Claire North
@Claire North
04/28/10 06:07:47
13 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

What about places like the Masonic Lodge or Veterans places..they cook so they have to be licensed right?
Dirke Botsford
@Dirke Botsford
04/16/10 15:59:40
98 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

ask your local food inspector, they should know them all!
Amy DeFiore
@Amy DeFiore
04/14/10 13:32:28
5 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The bizkitchens is a really helpful website! I'll have to try calling the caterers too. Thanks for the tips!!
Valerie
@Valerie
04/12/10 16:17:39
29 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Try http://www.bizkitchens.com/ Your state dept. of agriculture might also have suggestions.
Amy DeFiore
@Amy DeFiore
04/12/10 15:50:13
5 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I tried commercial kitchen and didn't have much luck. I'll have to try kitchen incubator. Thanks!
Andre Costa
@Andre Costa
04/12/10 12:18:03
103 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

This is a very basic question, but have you Googled "commercial kitchen" or "kitchen incubator"? That's how I found the one I will start using (hopefully) this year.
Amy DeFiore
@Amy DeFiore
04/12/10 10:20:15
5 posts

How to find Rental Kitchens?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'm trying to start up a chocolate business but don't have a kitchen that I can use for commercial products yet. I am planning to start selling my product at craft shows and local flea markets versus opening a storefront right away.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to find commercial kitchens to rent?


updated by @Amy DeFiore: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Susan Van Horn
@Susan Van Horn
08/06/11 14:56:52
32 posts

The Business of Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks, Jeff! Back at ya!
Jeff Slaughter
@Jeff Slaughter
08/05/11 02:25:56
15 posts

The Business of Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Casey,

Thanks for adding your thoughts. I live in Belgium and having the flexibility of working on the course without having to worry about time differences, etc. is a real plus. I'm also looking at taking a chocolate course or two here offered by Callebaut. I just figured I should know as much as possible before I start at Callebaut. There courses are just a few days and I'd love to know enough already to ask intelligent questions.

Great idea about the E-Myth book - I've been meaning to read that book anyway.

Bon courage with your business too!

Jeff

Jeff Slaughter
@Jeff Slaughter
08/05/11 02:23:32
15 posts

The Business of Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks Omar. Very cool about Pam's award!
Jeff Slaughter
@Jeff Slaughter
08/05/11 02:23:06
15 posts

The Business of Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Susan,

Thanks so much for writing. As I said to Suzanna it's great to get different people's perspectives on the courses offered by Ecole Chocolat. Seems to me its a good place to start and then branch out from there.

Good luck with your business!

Jeff

Jeff Slaughter
@Jeff Slaughter
08/05/11 02:20:56
15 posts

The Business of Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Suzanna,

Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's always good to have different points of view about things like this. I hope you found a course that you like better.

Thanks for writing!

Jeff

Casey Hickey
@Casey Hickey
08/04/11 19:02:24
7 posts

The Business of Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

jeff,

i agree with brad's points re: labor and ingredient costs. i also agree that purchasing equipment can be a huge labor-saver, though the equipment itself is not cheap. yet when you consider that you don't have to pay payroll taxes, the machine can't call in sick (though it can have mechanical issues...), and you can operate the machine at any hour of the day, time-saving equipment like an enrober can reap you big benefits.

i also agree with the other posters whose ecole chocolat experience was a positive one. i was a mid-life career changer with a 2-yr-old and pregnant w/ my 2nd child at the time of taking the ecole course. there was no way i could have accumulated that kind of information on my own given my life circumstances. the ability to practice/test recipes at whatever hour of the day my life afforded, plus not having to do the research on my own, were real advantages to me. i'd already obtained a pastry certification but wanted to delve further into chocolate. and the graduate forum has been a great source of inspiration and advice, much the way this forum has. the camaraderie and support from that group has been so helpful.

one last suggestion is consider reading "the E myth" (the E standing for entrepreneur), as you develop the plan for your business. while its conclusions aren't earth shattering, they do seem to be so often overlooked by entrepreneurs when establishing a business. i have found it to be a good reminder of those things i know i should be doing but haven't yet put into place.

best of luck to you!

casey

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